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Morning on Uranus
Morning on Uranus
Comments: 0
HenkStenkel

28.03.2024, 12:39








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IBL60-61
IBL60-61

            

IBL60-61
Description: IBL in Bryce 6.1 is a dramatic improvement over 6.0. I rendered ?QT 0.18.6 Marooned? and ?Border to Desert? again. On the left side 6.0, on the right 6.1. Both use the (faked) HDRI that you can create yourself with the tutorial included with 6.1. Though I like the Qutie from 6.0 better, 6.1 is more according to the HDRI used (rendered with 128 lights). Look at the Shadows.

Border to Desert was rendered with 64 lights and took almost 9 hours in this size on a twice 3.4 GHz machine. The shadows are deeper and the picture has a lot more contrast.
Added by: Horo
Keywords: ibl, compared
Date: 04.05.2007 07:07
Hits: 3346
Downloads: 88
Rating: 0.00 (0 Vote(s))
File size: 336.5 KB
Previous image: Cthulhu fhtagn



Author: Comment:
rashadcarter1
Admin

Join Date: 06.04.2006
Comments: 2610
-

On behalf of everyone I must say a big thank you! The work you put into helping DAZ update the hdr feature in 6.1 really shows. I gave your tutorial a look, it is fabulous. I had done something similar, but with an actual silver ball placed in a bryce scene, rendered, then made into an hdr. I think that everyone should download HDRShop as it is FREE and so very important now for bryce. There is no one perfect hdr so the more one has to chose from the better. Making our own sounds techie at first, but your tutorial spells it out so simply.

Yes, the new ibl seems to be more realistic, in that there are fewer lights and therefore deeper shadpws perhaps? Only using 64 lights in Border to Desert means that you can render with transparency. Question for the expert, Why is it that the scene renders faster with a 64 light hdr setting than it does with 64 real lights? It seems that there is an algorithm making it a much faster render.

I have come to find that hdr's work much better when used as the background and lighting instead of only for light information. When the background and the hdr/ ibl lighting match, the cause and effect of the light's behavior is amplified. For example, if the sky is blue in a scene, then why would one use a reddish hdr to light it? Sounds odd, but people do these things. If the general point behind hdr is capturing the lighting of an environment, then wouldn't it seem feasible that it must be the right environment? Yes IBl has soft shadows and the like, so they add realism even if they don't add the right colors and intensities, but I still find myself needing tons of hdrs, and the ability to make my own paramount. The only bad thing about hdr shop is that a license must be purchased for commercial uses. The results of hdr are so great that I would be willing to pay for the right to use it in a professional job. Great work. Time well spent.
04.05.2007 14:46 Offline rashadcarter1 rashadcarter1 at aol.com
rashadcarter1
Admin

Join Date: 06.04.2006
Comments: 2610
sharpness

Also, the new level of sharpness for an hdr when used as background is really really great. It makes you wonder why there was no background image import option avalable before. Max, Maya, and most other apps allow you to place a background image. We can do the same thing with a 2d face upright in bryce, but it interacts with the environment and is not the same effect. This new level of sharpness means that an image of 4000x4000 set as background would appear at about perfect sharpness, while providing real world lighting. Amazing!
04.05.2007 15:07 Offline rashadcarter1 rashadcarter1 at aol.com
gat
Member

Join Date: 12.21.2006
Comments: 667
.

Ah, lately I been jumping between bryce and blender, right now Im on blender. I got to do some experiments with hdri in bryce too.

HDRI lighting in Bryce is actually fast if you think about it, its bryce's render engine that is not letting it go any faster. But It calculates caustics unlike other apps, from any light, in other apps you need to set up photon lights, etc...
I wonder how Vue does it, the last time I was there they claimed to have increased render speed by 150% (do not know if true or not). Anyone have Vue?
04.06.2007 00:59 Offline gat brshkv at yahoo.com
gat
Member

Join Date: 12.21.2006
Comments: 667
also

On the images to the right it looks like Anti. is off Yet the branches and the robot lines are smooth. It looks like its only on texture. Am I right or am I going crazy?
04.06.2007 01:02 Offline gat brshkv at yahoo.com
Horo
Admin

Join Date: 05.26.2004
Comments: 4721
Thanks

Strange gat, now that you mention it, the right ones look indeed like AAing was off. It wasn't. AAing is the show killer when it comes to render time. It must be the mat on the terrain doing that - due to the higher contrast, perhaps? The lower left pic I scaled down from 1600x1200 because I haven't got it smaller anymore. I did not sharpen it; the upper left is the original render.

That tutorial in the 6.1 package did very much surprise me when I accidently discovered it. I was asked to provide one last year and that was my test baloon, I intended 2 others: rendering cube faces and a Bryce mirror ball, not just a sky dome. The preliminary tut was then sent to David by DAZ to test it. I've never heard from DAZ about it. Therefore, I didn't continue with the other ones.

Yes Rashad, HDRShop is indeed quite a complete package but it is not obvious to use. The only tutorial available is good, but leaves a lot untold. I've been playing with the thought to create a more exhautive one and put it up on my web site. I just haven't made up my mind yet, whether I will couple this with the other "fake HDRI with Bryce" ones or just keep it HDRShop.

There is that "non-commercial use" license in HDRShop which actually means, if you read the small print, free for "research" purposes only. However, I don't think we'll get prosecuted for publishing pictures here. You can always open it and save it in an other HDRI tool (e.g. Artizen or PotoShop CS2) or get rid of the mark in the file by other means. My probes are all neutralised.
04.06.2007 07:01 Offline Horo h.-r.h.wernli at bluewin.ch https://www.horo.ch/
davidbrinnen
Admin

Join Date: 01.03.2004
Comments: 2224
-

The main issue I have with using hdr as a backdrop is that it is difficult to get a matching quality in the backdrop for what is going on in the forground. Using the hdr as a light source does indeed change and improve on the quality of the light and produces scenes in bryce that do not have a "brycelike" quality. That is not to say there is anything inherently wrong with scenes which have a brycelike quality, but the fact that we can talk about that as a concept reveals the limitations of the old lighting system. Hdr brings something new, interesting and flexible - which is good. It is slower, but careful choice of material and subject can reduce that issue somewhat. Rendered as a background, for me, works best when the background is not seen directly but only as a highlight or a reflection - because when viewed directly, it does tend to look alien to the scene and a bit blurred - which could be FOV... but if FOV is used also, it gets double blured... This is why I would like to see Horo continue his development faking HDRI with Bryce, since a hdr produced from a Bryce scene would stand a better chance of blending when used as a backdrop than some image that was not native to Bryce.

Incidentally, Border to Desert in 6.1 looks fantastic, the increase in contrast really brings those foreground leaves to life.
04.06.2007 08:32 Offline davidbrinnen mail at davidbrinnen.co.uk http://www.davidbrinnen.com
rashadcarter1
Admin

Join Date: 06.04.2006
Comments: 2610
balance

Yes, when used as a backdrop it can be very difficult to match the light levels. Anoter benefit of self made hdris' is that the gamma curve can be adjusted to give a better light output without blowing out the background.

The best thing would be a simple background, that is not hdri. One could use the hdr as light and the ldr as background. It would be an easy feature for them to include. I continue to be baffled as to the logic behind why bryce does not have a true background insertion ability.
04.06.2007 14:21 Offline rashadcarter1 rashadcarter1 at aol.com
Horo
Admin

Join Date: 05.26.2004
Comments: 4721
-

We're baffled too, Rashad. Either proper tone-mapping controls in the IBL lab or a tone-mapped down LDRI for each HDRI is a must. The right people at DAZ know that we want that badly. Perhaps in v.7 - if there will be one.

If you have a setup in mind with an HDRI rendered as backdrop and used as light source too, convert an LDRI to HDRI without contrast boosting. This is a good start, but you will miss the strong light sources. Radials will be needed.
04.06.2007 18:36 Offline Horo h.-r.h.wernli at bluewin.ch https://www.horo.ch/


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