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Cassandra 1
Cassandra 1
Comments: 5
rashadcarter1

13.08.2022, 03:19








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Hybrid of IBL, additional and secondary
Hybrid of IBL, additional and secondary

            

Hybrid of IBL, additional and secondary
Description: This took slightly longer to render out. Eight and a half hours. However, I did use 100 quality for the IBL instead of the former level of 50. And as a result I can't detect any shadow banding. Also I had to drop the level of the IBL in order to accomodate the additional light and the secondary lighting. The setup for these has remained essentially the same, just the levels lowered somewhat. The final image did turn out a little bit "bright" so I used PSP to gamma compress them back into range so I could achieve full black in the deepest shadow regions. The effect of the IBL is subtle, but I think it does add a certain soldity and weight to the whole scene which is lacking in the first image.

Thanks again to Horo for the (ab)use of his moon hdr.
Added by: davidbrinnen
Keywords: davidbrinnen, bryce6, IBL, additional, secondary, sunshine, lighting, experiment, horo, hdr
Date: 11.17.2006 09:52
Hits: 3225
Downloads: 142
Rating: 0.00 (0 Vote(s))
File size: 181.5 KB
Previous image: New World



Author: Comment:
rashadcarter1
Admin

Join Date: 06.04.2006
Comments: 2622
colored secondaries

The combo looks great. For my tastes a rather fast render also. Horo's .hdri is great by the way. The levels you have established are all great. Again the issue of soft shadows renders it's head in that the ibl shadows are soft enough that we can play around with "primary" lighting direction a bit as you have here with the additional and the secondaries. The light coming through the window wants soft shadows to complete the realism.

I believe a bit of the ibl effect could be "faked" with color hued secondaries. I have yet to try it but in principle it should work.
11.17.2006 10:39 Offline rashadcarter1 rashadcarter1 at aol.com
Horo
Admin

Join Date: 05.26.2004
Comments: 4744
-

The warmer colours are an advantage, here. However, we've lost the ceiling in the dark, which was better in the first one. A haven't noticed, but it was gone already in the second.
11.17.2006 15:19 Offline Horo h.-r.h.wernli at bluewin.ch https://www.horo.ch/
davidbrinnen
Admin

Join Date: 01.03.2004
Comments: 2227
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Well spotted on the ceiling, I'll try something a bit fancy for the next encarnation. The warm colour, as you say, works well in this combination.

Yes, I think it should in theory be possible to fake the IBL effect, but to get the same degree of modeling in the "ambient" lighting a complete dome of light sources may be required.
11.17.2006 17:18 Offline davidbrinnen mail at davidbrinnen.co.uk http://www.davidbrinnen.com
richter
Member

Join Date: 04.15.2004
Comments: 1097
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I patiently studied the whole three renders of yours and definitely this one is the most convincing. Solidity and weight you say, I agree. All the colors and the effect of the IBL make me Feel this pic as good as a photo. There is a bright spot in the closest shadow from the window as if the ground texture glows where the sunlight turns out to be the most intensive. This adds additional sence of dynamic and "alive" (concerning the lighting) processes going on. Maybe this is a result from some of the secondary lights. For the ceiling, it is possible to be this way, I mean darker. If we concentrate our vision on the bright places and right after that look to the ceiling (or anywhere else unlit directly from the source) we won't see anything but a darken area with slightly parts of detail. It is up to our eyes to adapt in time to the surrounding lighting and recognize all the upcoming elements. The only thing I would change here is the density of the ground texture or if it has to be the way I see it now, just add a bump map so the floor tiling can read the shadows effectivelly. Speaking of shadows, a good idea would be to make them softer. Yes, I'm sure you thought about that, the part of your goal here I belive was the faster render time. It would be several times longer then, but what if...
11.17.2006 23:44 Offline richter richter at cold-may.com
rashadcarter1
Admin

Join Date: 06.04.2006
Comments: 2622
soft shadows

I really think this issue of soft shadows needs attention. How would one go about softening these shadows other than what I mentioned earlier with using a light dome?
11.18.2006 14:17 Offline rashadcarter1 rashadcarter1 at aol.com
davidbrinnen
Admin

Join Date: 01.03.2004
Comments: 2227
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A small halo of lights to replace the secondary sun. Well, that is the theory... it is rendering now, you shall be able to judge the results for yourself in a few hours. Hopefully...
11.18.2006 17:21 Offline davidbrinnen mail at davidbrinnen.co.uk http://www.davidbrinnen.com
rashadcarter1
Admin

Join Date: 06.04.2006
Comments: 2622
shadow banding

The truth is, as long as the default sun needs "replacement," soft shadows will be an issue. Your halo will surely soften the shadows, but it leave bands across the shadows lines. The more lights the "smoother the shadows, and the longer the render. If your halo has less than 50 lights the bands will be visible along the length of the long shadows. The window shadows may also show the banding, as the shadows soften and the bands split based upon distance. You have asked Daz before to consider the default sun intensity and they promised the .hdri would do the trick, but just as I always suspected the default sun needs to be stronger so that we don't need to replace it for realistic gamma levels. The default sun has soft shadows and they render really fast in my experience, much faster than light domes. I love light domes, don't get me wrong. I just wish we didn't need them, especially when render times start getting high.
11.18.2006 19:39 Offline rashadcarter1 rashadcarter1 at aol.com
davidbrinnen
Admin

Join Date: 01.03.2004
Comments: 2227
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Your point about the bryce sun is a good one. You are not the only one to have lodged this request with DAZ. I can understand why they think the hdri would solve this issue, but the reality is that there is not enough control over the hdr at this point in time to allow this to happen. As for the banding... well... the proof of the pudding... the render is taking a while though, I've been a bit over clever with my effects and that has cost in terms of render time.
11.18.2006 20:15 Offline davidbrinnen mail at davidbrinnen.co.uk http://www.davidbrinnen.com
davidbrinnen
Admin

Join Date: 01.03.2004
Comments: 2227
Quicktime - waste of time.

Delays... Quicktime crashed Bryce6 mid render. Quicktime is needed because MOV files belong to apple and can not be installed into far superior (I say this purely on the basis that Microsoft software does not crash bryce) Microsoft movie editing software. So that's a day and a half of rendering down the drain.
11.19.2006 12:18 Offline davidbrinnen mail at davidbrinnen.co.uk http://www.davidbrinnen.com
rashadcarter1
Admin

Join Date: 06.04.2006
Comments: 2622
loop hole

Sorry to hear that. Not too surprised either. It's sad to say that I had a feeling the experiment would be frought with a problem or two. It's sad that sometimes we have to rig the program to work in spite of itself. Having to replace the sun is really a boon.

Fortunately, there is a possible solution even still. What I have done for myself is to establish a "standard candle." It is a certain value of light that I use to illuminate all scenes, at least at the start. I develop 2 versions of the sun. One that's a single light, and another that is a light dome set to have the exact same overall strength as the single radial light. This allows me to render the scene with hard shadows in a matter of minutes, and then to replace the single radial light with the light dome and plop render the shadow edges only, saving tons of time. In outdoor scenes you usually have simple primary lighting from the sun and no other direction really so all your shadows fall along the same angle. Indoor this is not possible as there could be lots of light coming from lots of lamps within the scene.
11.19.2006 21:53 Offline rashadcarter1 rashadcarter1 at aol.com
t_bahles
Member

Join Date: 09.06.2008
Comments: 138
;)

good job
12.24.2008 14:35 Offline t_bahles tahabahles at hotmail.com
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