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just enough
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labyrinth

16.04.2024, 11:02

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My HotRod Shop

My HotRod Shop
Description:	Ya, I wish, lol. I played with this for almost 2 datys. Today, it took 2:13:30 to render just to save. I used "Premium AA" with RPP at 9, plus I used 48 Bit Dithering. I'm a bit dissapointed with the beer bottles. They looked darker on the original. Also, the sky .BSK that I used has some haze as you can see with the hot air balloons. Enjoy PS; I know what Horo is going to say, "It's sure one of Rebel's walls" lol.
Added by:	Rebel64
Keywords:	Landscape, Cars
Date:	08.15.2009 00:59
Hits:	2759
Downloads:	62
Rating:	0.00 (0 Vote(s))
File size:	710.0 KB

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JoAJ
Member

Join Date: 10.21.2008
Comments: 113

You certainly have a lot of items in this. I like the whole idea that you have here, lots of interesting things to look at.

08.15.2009 07:25

Horo
Admin

Join Date: 05.26.2004
Comments: 4721

But it IS a "Rebel", what else can I say? It is a style you have that sets your artwork apart from the others. I like it. The beer bottles have light beer in them, not Guiness, but that's alright. Only one thing: the shadows are subdued everywhere except the ones from the small plants at the feet of the podest are pitch black and this is inconsistent.

08.15.2009 13:00

Rebel64
Member

Join Date: 03.21.2009
Comments: 183

Thanks all. About the shadows, all I can say is mmmm, I don't get it. That will be something to look out for in the future. Darn, I worked hard on getting the shadows correct and did not even pay attention to the foremost shadows. I wonder why they are so black compared to the rest.

08.15.2009 14:28

rashadcarter1
Admin

Join Date: 06.04.2006
Comments: 2610

Nice work with staging and the details ar superb as always from you.The shadows issue is disturbing, as it is a common issue with many of your scenes. Rebel you must look at shadows differently than you are thinking of them now. Shadows are not evil, they are good. Do not run away from them, use them to your advantage. It is futile to try to avoid shadows. Here's why:There are 2 modes of shadows, there are self shadows a model casts onto itself, and then there are raytraced shadows casting from one model to another. All models will self shade deep shadows no matter how you set the shadow intensity in the sky lab. It is only due to self shadowing that we can observe any of the geometry of a model, without self shadowing the geometry appears completely flat with no contours. Only when considering the shadows cast from one model to another in a scene does the skylab shadow setting matter at all. This is why I have been trying to get you to accept shadows, they are always present in one way or another. Even if you remove all shadow intensity, you will still get deep shadows on models due to self shading. All this means is that it is time for you to step up your lighitng, and to take control over the indirect light in your scene. It is more important than the direct sunlight in terms of realism.

Many users blindly and lazily apply ambient glow to materials, as ambient glow cancels out the self shading of models to a certain degree, this will lift your shadows but it will also flatten the geometry and make the render look of a cartoon as a result. So instead of ambient glow, you need to explore using dim radials carefully positioned around the scene to provide realistic indirect light.

08.16.2009 02:17

Rebel64
Member

Join Date: 03.21.2009
Comments: 183

"Houston, we have a problem". I'm not getting what you are talking about Rashad, there are shadows from all items. As I look at the rendering here, every item has a shadow casting on whatever it is on, the car display stage has a shadow on the ground, the trees have shadows, the table and chairs have shadows. Mon, ya got me lost. Please tell me you see shadows on the ground. I have found out that different monitors display differently.
Please note Horo's comment pertaining to shadows.
I have been an artist most of my life and do know the value of shadows. I have painted hundreds of oil and acrylic paintings in my past. I have been both, a freelance artist, a starving artist(lol), and a professional artist. I have been a "company" artist, an Art Director, a darkroom tech, a darkroom Supervisor, a Quality Control Inspector, I could go on and on. I'm just trying to make a point that I do know the value of shadows, just got carried away a little. I do not know what else to say except, I see shadows being cast from all objects in this wall.

08.16.2009 14:55

Rebel64
Member

Join Date: 03.21.2009
Comments: 183

I just checked the original Bryce file for this wall. I have the shadows set at 75%. Hope this helps. Now I set the shadows at 90% and I do see the difference. Sorry Rashad.

08.16.2009 15:10

rashadcarter1
Admin

Join Date: 06.04.2006
Comments: 2610

Rebel,

I understand. You are working hard on all of this, that is obvious. You have more experience with this art stuff than I do, for sure. I know nothing of art, this is why I tend not to stray too far from realism. I consider myself more of a photographer of digital worlds. So my notes are aonly in regards to the realism I perceive.

Usually I can observe a Bryce rendered scene and quickly find the offensive lighting culprit. In most cases, Bryce provides tools that lead almost certainly to unrealistic renders every time. The tools provided just don't work as they should. Often Bryce renders are known for being very flat and lacking in realistic dimension. So shadows are a key component to overcoming that issue. There are 3 offenders usually, 1. ambient glow 2. Shadows set too low in skylab, 3 shadows disabled within the light lab, 4. skydome color contamination. In this case the issue was not 1,2,or 3, but number 4.

As I study the image a bit closer, I think I can see the problem with the shadows. I misdiagnosed the original problem, which is not the shadows as such, but the skydome color in the skylab baking away many of the ground level shadows.

The skydome effect is for me very much like the ambient channel, it provides flat shadowless evil light. The skydome shines light straight down like a flashlight, it does not provide any illumination from the side angles as the term dome suggests, so it is an essential failure of a tool at its primary purpose, and to add insult to injury, it does not cast shadows, so it pollutes and bakes away all ground level shadows even indoors. Basically, the skydome is shining straight down only which is frying and baking away your ground level shadows only making them appear too light. Apologies for the misdiagnosis.

Best bet is to avoid the skydome effect completely by making certain it's color is always full black. Skydome is a shortcut, not a real tool and it leads to major lighting problems such as those we observe here where ground shadows are baked away yet other shadows are actually too deep. Skydome is a pollutant, and should be avoided if you want a reasonable realism in the final output.

Instead of the skydome effect, try placing a few radials around the scene at different distances and elevations to simulate the light that shines form all sides in real life, to simulate indirect light interaction in a more natural manner.

That said, you're going to kill me but... the shadows might actually be perfect as they are now, no need to increase though I personally use 90% all the time. I think that simply replacing the skydome color with some real radials arranged in a random dome around the scene will fix the too dark shadows in some areas.

Thanks for your patience.

08.18.2009 21:39

bullit35744
Member

Join Date: 10.22.2008
Comments: 390

You don't have a 1969ss camaro in there but all in all its very nice

08.23.2009 23:02

https://sites.google.com/site/bullit35744

Rebel64
Member

Join Date: 03.21.2009
Comments: 183

Nope Trish, but a lot of beer bottles, lol.

08.28.2009 04:01

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