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Thing in the Ice
Thing in the Ice
Comments: 4
megacal

28.03.2024, 09:34








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Viper Max
Viper Max

            

Viper Max
Description: A while back I submitted an image "A Couple of Vipers", to mixed success. Icecreamman suggested that I render the car as a showpiece. After Renderman's recent renders of the Sedan I figured I would go ahead and try it out. The lighting is the most important issue as we test out the "bouncing light" effect with flattened spotlights.

Rendered with premium AA 64 rays per pixel to smooth out the curtain fabric. The fabric is another issue as the appearance of velvet was the challenge. I decided that since reflection when mapped becomes specularity more or less I decided to just use specularity and forego the reflection as a time saver. The effect is plausible to me. Borrowing techniques from Renderman I decided that curtain was a great choice. To model the curtain I took a terrain, cleared the height map info as a "new", then I used invert to turn it to a full white and full height, I then cut a black hole into the the center to create a cylindrical enclosure I could place the car within. I then applied erosion to create the fabric fall.

Anyhow the scene is lit with 2 Primary light sources and only 1 secondary bounce light. The brightest light is behind the car strength 185. The other primary light is in front of the car strength 85. There is only one "secondary" or bounce light, an upside down spotlight flattened and set strength 60. Since I only plan to render the scene from one angle I did not place any "bounce" lights behind the car because they would not have a visible effect on the car from this angle. The curtain is dark so I was not worried aout the floor shining up onto it too much. The reflection of the car body also does alot of color transferring that looks a bit of light bouncing because of the blurred reflections setting during render. Normally my secondary light intensitites are much dimmer compared to my primary sources but because the floor is so white I figured a high percentage of the original light would be bounced up from the floor. Also, the weaker of the primaries is in the foregropund and it casts a white spot on the floor directly beneath it as a pool of illumination. When placing bounce lights you must place them in the areas that are the brightest, so the spotlight is directly beneath the primary source for this reason, which happens to be in the front area of the car. This is a key factor in the Apartment scenario I submitted before.

Feedback is much appreciated. Thanks for your time.
Added by: rashadcarter1
Keywords: rashadcarter1, bryce6.1, psp7, Viper, curtain
Date: 05.06.2008 18:38
Hits: 4282
Downloads: 2
Rating: 5.00 (2 Vote(s))
File size: 633.6 KB
Previous image: Two Blue Sedans
Next image: Black 37 Sedan



Author: Comment:
davidbrinnen
Admin

Join Date: 01.03.2004
Comments: 2224
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Good use of terrain! And the curtain material also looks very good. Possibly the broadness of the folds in the curtain are having a slight minaturising effect on the scene. Lighting is very good, you have explained things well and I can't argue with your choices. Renderwise, I'd say that the noise is still to heigh at 64rpp. But we all know the price you would pay for putting that up. Best bits for me are the alloys, which have faired very well in terms of light and shadow and the seat material which may indeed be benifiting from the introduction of what is usually unwanted noise? The main let down for me is the pose of the car, some time spent with a performance car mag or similar such will suggest ways of giving the car more personality. As far as lighting goes though I have no grumbles. 5/5
05.06.2008 19:04 Offline davidbrinnen mail at davidbrinnen.co.uk http://www.davidbrinnen.com
Render Man
Member

Join Date: 11.10.2007
Comments: 358
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Thanks for picking this scenario as this gives me a better idea of how to use the lighting. I was thinking of working on another scene but without the car as I am sure everyone is getting tired of seeing the Sedan along with myself. Nice car but just to many hours being fixated on it.

Rashad, Yes I would like to see you lighting arrangement from your studio scene. I tired flattened spot lights pointing in and out and left and right ha. I need to understand the principle and then I can have a direction. David's comments on my Sedan were also helpful about what I can and cannot do with lights in Bryce. And thanks for the comments on my Sedan post I have read it over and will read it again. I have also done some research on the internet on lighting in Bryce and have found a couple of good sites.

Great looking Viper.
05.06.2008 22:50 Offline Render Man alreich_4 at msn.com
rashadcarter1
Admin

Join Date: 06.04.2006
Comments: 2610
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Thanks gentlemen.

I forgot to mention that there is one more light a radial inside of the car. Just like Renderman I found it necessary to add one inside the car to represent the bouncing in that area.

David, I had a feeling the car was being miniaturized by the curtain folds. Thanks for confirming my suspicions. Over the years we have come to think similarly.

RenderMan, I am the king of multiple submissions of the same scene. Embarrassingly so at times perhaps. But if you look at my gallery my skills have grown 50 fold because of these multiple submissions and the incredible feedback offered here at Bryce5.com. Often I do not even change the camera angle because I do not want compositional issues to affect opinions on the image as I alter lights or materials or whatever technical issue I am exploring at that time. There are about 90 versions of Cement Jungle and when I get the patiecne to build the bridges and more air ships likely I will submit it yet again. We are all growing together and I think it takes alot of courage to mature publically as I have. That is the beauty of Bryce5.com. Detailed, technical, often lengthy reviews make this site a necessity and make this site unique. Other sites are so concerned about artist feelings that very little useful feedback is shared. It helps no one just to say "I like it." What helps is explaing why we like it or don't.

Truthfully, I have no artistic backbone whatsoever. 99% of my scenes are merely an excuse to test out one technique or another. All of my stuff is technically based and I am hoping to feel confident enough in my technical skills to actually produce some actual art someday soon.
05.07.2008 04:47 Offline rashadcarter1 rashadcarter1 at aol.com
Render Man
Member

Join Date: 11.10.2007
Comments: 358
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I have already been working on a new scene and also found were all these great cars models are located. I am working on the Camaro. But after reading this I need to change my curtain. By the time I bend them in the shape of a circle they folds gets stretched out.

Right now I am working with two flattened spot lights along with to radials as I am still having difficulty with dark spots. The glass on the windows it a bit of a problem as I have tried several settings to get it to look right. I just found out why the windows are so dark as there is nothing inside the car. Ha

Did you use any kind of ceiling in this scene or do you just turn off the sunlight? I have been using a 2D disk and am finding that material on the ceiling effects the lighting.
05.07.2008 12:34 Offline Render Man alreich_4 at msn.com
rashadcarter1
Admin

Join Date: 06.04.2006
Comments: 2610
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I did indeed disable the sun. It is unnecessary for a scenario like this one. We are indoors.

Automotive glass is a tricky issue. Richter commented on the reflections of my earlier Viper scene and since then I have found a solution for the glass. Automotive glass unlike other forms of glass cannot distort light. Distortion free glass often looks like air, hard to notice. My exact glass settings are as follows:
Strike that, better I will upload a .mat file.

Suggestion, In a close-up like this I suggest you use a model that is complete, both inside and outside. Low res cars are great for distances but up close you might need a touch more detail.

Also with the spotlight, you must remember two key setting in the light lad. You must ensure that the edge softness is accelerated to 100% This is a feature that affects spotlights only and not radials but you need it to smooth out the illumination. Also make sure the spotlights have a Square falloff, this way the light does not extend forever and remains local.
05.07.2008 14:37 Offline rashadcarter1 rashadcarter1 at aol.com
Horo
Admin

Join Date: 05.26.2004
Comments: 4721
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Ok Rashad, you get a fiver from me for this one - even though I have a quibble, which is the curtain. Such a heavy curtain hangs vertical, there are no sideways folds. I've also used a terrain for the curtains in Conjunction http://www.bryce5.com/details.php?image_id=871 but I've drawn lines and smoothed them. A bit more tedious than your smart idea but I think also a bit nearer to reality.
05.07.2008 15:50 Offline Horo h.-r.h.wernli at bluewin.ch https://www.horo.ch/
Render Man
Member

Join Date: 11.10.2007
Comments: 358
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Thanks for the glass I will check it out later as I need to get back to work. You are right I am rendering this Camaro right now and you can see the ploy edges. I will try to find another car. But I had some great lighting.

Horo very nice curtains from using the terrain editor are you going to tell us how you did it?
05.07.2008 18:43 Offline Render Man alreich_4 at msn.com
rashadcarter1
Admin

Join Date: 06.04.2006
Comments: 2610
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Right on Horo. The only difference between your scenario and mine is that I was looking to enclose the model from all sides. The reflection of the car metal demanded that I fill in the background from all sides. This meant that I could not draw the lines, erosion would have been the only way to accomplish this with just one terrain. Likely I should have used multiple terrains tiled for the most plausilbe effect. I was indeed looking to save time. I could have straightened the appearance of the folds by stretching the terrain much more vertically, the taller the terrain the less diagonal the folds appear. I knew that curtain was not quite up to the level it needed to be. Laziness rears its ugly head once again.

Also, I really love that image Conjunction. I remember reading the comments years ago when I was still a silent visitor to the site and I remember you and David having me in stitches with laughter. You guys are nuts! Ah, the good old days huh?Thanks for the fiver Horo!
05.07.2008 18:46 Offline rashadcarter1 rashadcarter1 at aol.com
Horo
Admin

Join Date: 05.26.2004
Comments: 4721
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RenderMan - Have a look at that picture, it explains it all (sort of): http://www.horo.ch/4bryce5com/curtain.jpg Sorry for the ambient, I made this in Bryce 5.0 and had not heard Rashads gospel, yet.

Rashad - I cannot speak for David (well, I could in this respect, I guess) but I'm indeed nutty a s a fruitcake (at odd moments). It's fun and hurts nobody.
05.07.2008 19:31 Offline Horo h.-r.h.wernli at bluewin.ch https://www.horo.ch/
davidbrinnen
Admin

Join Date: 01.03.2004
Comments: 2224
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It's the universe we live in. There is something very wrong with it. Good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people. Where's the sense in that? I maintain I am perfectly rational and sane, the most rational and sane person I know, it's the universe that's on the blink.
05.07.2008 22:44 Offline davidbrinnen mail at davidbrinnen.co.uk http://www.davidbrinnen.com
rashadcarter1
Admin

Join Date: 06.04.2006
Comments: 2610
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Agreed. We are all extentions of that very same blinky Universe. Contradictions by default. All that one can hope for is that over time it all averages out, the good and the bad that is. The distinction between good and bad, sane and insane can be fuzzy at times. I consider myself to be more on the fruitcakey side, odd and surely not shy or coy, even when I should be. What I like about this Universe is that it is just big enough to contain my massive ego, yet small enough to remind me that I can never escape myself.
05.08.2008 16:00 Offline rashadcarter1 rashadcarter1 at aol.com
richter
Member

Join Date: 04.15.2004
Comments: 1092
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Effective render, Rashad. I really like the red viper's color opposed to the blue-grayish curtains. Agreeing to all that's been said above I can only add that your image will really benefit from more "wild" angle of view, such as between 100~130 in the cam's options and position the camera a little more in front of the car and slightly lower. If you're able to control the front wheels, things could get more dramatic by rotating them towards the viewer, so the Viper will appear to be parked with the steering turned left. Finally, this "tunning" :) would end up with adding a lightprobe with backdrop activated, so you can catch some reflections from the "ceiling". Excellent curtains btw, the way of creating those is very original, I wouln't have thought of that. Bravo!
05.10.2008 11:19 Offline richter richter at cold-may.com


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