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Snow test
Snow test
Comments: 5
AngeGabriel

28.03.2024, 19:53








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Custom Sedan
Custom Sedan

            

Custom Sedan
Description: Done in Carrara 6 pro I used the HDRI along with a picture I took the picture of the sky from my backyard. I changed all the colors on this car and used a red for the interior using the the bump map with cellular which made a great texture. I have some bulbs located on the other side of the car to make it appear that light from the sun is shinning through.
Added by: Render Man
Keywords: Car, sky
Date: 04.27.2008 23:38
Hits: 3404
Downloads: 70
Rating: 0.00 (0 Vote(s))
File size: 172.3 KB
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Author: Comment:
davidbrinnen
Admin

Join Date: 01.03.2004
Comments: 2224
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Although I've used Carrara 6 I can't claim to be any kind of expert, so you will have to judge my comments accordingly. Either ambient or shadow settings are such that the car appears to be glowing almost. I can see shadows but they are far less intense than I would have expected. Using the tile texture for the floor also has the effect of making the car look small, like a toy. Which while suitable for the car, is rather at odds with the background. On the plus side, the photo sky looks good and you've done well to get a model into Carrara, I don't know that I've worked out how to do that without it crashing. What is not your fault, is I feel that the quality of the render in Carrara is more often than not inferior to that of Bryce, but in ways that it is difficult to put my finger on exactly. A slight noisyness in the materials, a feeling that things are not as "integrated" as they should be. Always interesting to make comparisons though.
04.28.2008 08:09 Offline davidbrinnen mail at davidbrinnen.co.uk http://www.davidbrinnen.com
Render Man
Member

Join Date: 11.10.2007
Comments: 358
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Daviid,

I have noticed that you have used Carrara a few times as I noted it when I was looking at you art work on this site. As far as problems with crashing some of it must have to do with the system we each use. I have tired to redo the scene in Bryce with my horses and the picture on the 2D face and the program crashed both times it was very frustrating. So I thought I would go back to my old tromping ground and give Carrara a whirl and then go back to Bryce as I needed a break after the two crashes. And yest Bryce has done this to me more than once. This last time I forgot to save before it crashed which is my fault.

I was wondering why you preferred Bryce over Carrara. I like Bryce because of the terrains and it does have a great render engine. This scene above only took about two to three minuets to render and I had every setting in the render controls that I knew of on high. It still looks great to me even with this quick render time.

Always appreciate you comments but do have some of my own personal tastes. I do like the red inside the car but it is to bright as well as the car body . Believe me I was thinking of Rashad all the time I was using the shaders in Carrara.Ha

I did change the lighting as I did have two small radials on the front side of the car on a very low setting to bring out the detail on the tires but discovered that I did not need them so they are history. Lowered the intensity on the HDRI and changed the platform textures to something that would not reflect the light as much. Also added and eagle and the DAZ pup. I will post it later.
04.28.2008 11:53 Offline Render Man alreich_4 at msn.com
davidbrinnen
Admin

Join Date: 01.03.2004
Comments: 2224
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Two to three minutes to render is a suspiciously swift render for HDRI. Particularly with every setting on the render controls set on high... Now, like I said, my understanding of Carrara is sketchy, but to get HDRI to work you would need Global Illumination selected and a decent number of photons - I'm not sure the default of 5000 is enough. Also it helps (realism) if you use indirect light, but again there is an overhead. I've heard plenty of people say how much faster the Carrara renderer is, but once some of the more advanced lighting/textures are employed, it can still be a grind. If your global illumination/hdri is working correctly, you should not need to be adding in any other light into the scene. Also, rememeber the ambient setting is tucked away in the Scene settings... unhelpfully. Yes, my greatest objection to Carrara is that the interface is clunky and unintuitive. I'm not saying that Bryce never crashes, but I know how to crash Bryce, and so by extention I know how to avoid crashing Bryce. Carrara is more of a mystery - particularly when it comes to importing models for me!
04.28.2008 14:58 Offline davidbrinnen mail at davidbrinnen.co.uk http://www.davidbrinnen.com
Render Man
Member

Join Date: 11.10.2007
Comments: 358
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Yes you are right I did forget to turn on the Global Illumination but thought of it this morning when I was making some more changes on the lighting and the brightness on the car body. It has been sometime sense I have used Carrara and was surprised about how much I did remember. Ha
I do have the Photon count set to 5000 and the Intensity on 83 and have the light quality set to Best and the improved edges checked. Also have the Caustics enabled. I could boost the Photon count to see if there is much difference in the final render. The render this time is going to be about 30 minuets. I will post this again for the sake of comparison.

You are right I really don't need any lights in this scene but the sun shining in the cloud did not have realism so I added the light some distance from the car to make it appear as if the sun was shinning.

I was not intending to suggest that you were not saying Bryce never crashes but was only saying the systems on some computers may vary. I have no ax to grind as some when it comes to which programs have the most bells and whistles. I try to use what I can to accomplish what I need to get done.

Ahhh importing models that is the other reason I am using Bryce. I did figure out how to import models but as you stated it is to some degree a mystery. I also found there were limitations but I have not really checked out all the features in Carrara 6 pro on this issue. It would be nice if you could import or export from Bryce to Carrara and maybe 6pro does i will have to check it out.
04.28.2008 16:27 Offline Render Man alreich_4 at msn.com
rashadcarter1
Admin

Join Date: 06.04.2006
Comments: 2610
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Indeed Carrara is mysterious to me also. I think I would be totally lost in Carrara if not for my experience with Maya. But Carrara is no Maya so I still feel lost. The first question in my head when I saw this was how did he get the model to import properly? Also, as David says, you need to have the GLobal Illumination Skylight effect engaged for the ibl light to actually affect the scene, otherwise it is just a backdrop. The ambient issue in Carrara is beyond me in that I have not found the controls for it, I will investigate David's suggestion.

The clouds are quite incredible. The car itself is very shiny. This is one of the specific areas where I feel Bryce may have an advantage. In Bryce specularity is determined along 2 channels, Specular and Specular halo. The specualr Halo is a Bryce specific channel that I have not seen an equal for in Carrara. The specular Halo is amazing at "shaping" a specualrity and keeping it from being too uniform and even. Bryce's specualrity functions are hard to match.

Glad to know you have been thinking of my comments as you work. As I have said it is hard to go wrong once you start placing lights where you need them. Ideally Carrara is the best tool Daz offers right now because it can render true indirect light. I agree that there is noisiness in Carrara renders but it is likely caused by Carrara attemtping sophisticated lighting gradients while rendering very quickly. Surely it is a quality issue.

For my experience Carrara is much much faster than Bryce at rendering. It is very difficult to compare the two programs directly because they have very different approaches to light. I think what gives Carrara the advangtage is that you can render soft shadows and indirect light much faster than Bryce handles soft shadows and indirect light via ibl and/or radials.

Someday I might actually upload a scene rendered in Carrara or Maya but for now I do not think they look good enough to share. You Carrara uploaders are beyond me.
04.28.2008 17:55 Offline rashadcarter1 rashadcarter1 at aol.com
Render Man
Member

Join Date: 11.10.2007
Comments: 358
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As far as the imports the new Carrara 6 has added a content file to the Browser Tray. So all you have to do is open the content file and everything that is in DAZ is right at you finger tips. Just like using DAZ but in Carrara. I just found the Sedan and clicked on it with the right mouse button and presto there it was in the scene. Then in the Properties Tray you have little sliders to open the trunk and doors. It was very easy. And then for changing colors you just go into the shaders tab and drag and drop the colors on the objects were you want them and then you can go into the shader rooms and make adjustments to the shader. This is not a sells pitch but just some of the things I like about Carrara if you are using allot of Daz items as it is well integrated.

The ambient in Carrara affects the whole scene which in reality affects the materials if you use to much. It is found in the properties tray when you click on Scene on the Instances Tap. At the top of the properties tray there iis a slider for adjusting the ambient light. It is suggested in the manual not to use to much as it can wash out shaders or materials on items in the scene. It will also make is so shadows and other light effects less noticeable.if to much is used. So for the most part you concept still holds true but not totally in Carrara. You can turn the ambient to zero if you what to use lights with different affects in the scene. But I found I needed to use it with the HDRI but it could be that there is more that I don't know.
04.29.2008 03:52 Offline Render Man alreich_4 at msn.com
rashadcarter1
Admin

Join Date: 06.04.2006
Comments: 2610
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I have tested it just now and indeed you do not need the ambient glow to propogate the hdras ibl light. David is right. The IBL in Carrara is the skylight effect. Once you set an hdri as the backdrop it naturally becomes the skylight so by simply turning on skylight you propogate the hdri as light.
04.29.2008 06:20 Offline rashadcarter1 rashadcarter1 at aol.com
Horo
Admin

Join Date: 05.26.2004
Comments: 4721
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Well, I like the floor and I like the sky very much. Personallly I think, the car, particularly the inside, is too bright. But this might be an artistic decision and I shut up.

You used a photograph as HDRI, not a true HDRI and hence there's too much light around. Such "faked" HDRI's can make very nice ambient light but I think it is not fitting here. Carrara has a bit of a problem using HDRI's anyway - I don't know how the light is calculated. I suspect it uses the Monte carlo algorithm (the implementation of which in Bryce 6.0 was severly flawed). You cannot properly use an HDRI "faked" into a median-cut representation - the light is not right. This works excellently in Bryce 6.1 which uses just the median-cut alg. to create the light sources.

Specularity is something that does not exist in nature. If any photorealistic render is attempted, it is spoiled by specularity. There is only blurry reflection. This doesn't mean specularity and specular halo cannot be used in artwork - but certainly never in a photorealistic render, because it is just not realistic. That's also why the specularity control in Bryce doesn't have any effect if IBL is used exclusively for lighting the scene. For artistic effect, you need to add lights (radials) in order to make specularity work.

I've heard or rather read, a lot about the fast Carrara render engine but have never seen a test with comparable result. I don't say it's not faster, I've just never seen a prove of that claim. While I'd done those promo renders in Carrara6pro I could easily do a bit of household work like cooking a nice diner, eating it, read the newspaper and spent the rest of the day bored waiting to get that render done.

RenderMan, I'm not actually referring to your artwork here, sorry about that.
04.29.2008 19:52 Offline Horo h.-r.h.wernli at bluewin.ch https://www.horo.ch/
rashadcarter1
Admin

Join Date: 06.04.2006
Comments: 2610
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Horo. Ah yes Specularity is a cheat. But a valuable one and relatively clever, and I think sometimes essential for a photoreal image in Bryce due to the Bryce render limitations. The main reason why I like to include either a radial or the Bryce sun is so that I can create specularity as you suggested to Renderman. Though reflection is more real it only looks like a specularity if it is blurred. This requires premiumAA and high AA settings or the blur will be very noisy. I almost never have the patience for premiumm AA settings especially when I am using complex lighting like IBL and alot of transparency. Blurred reflection settings also means that all reflections in the scene will be blurred, even those you would prefer to remain crisp which is why carefully tuned specualrity is important as a shortcut.

For example, normal reflection settings will not give good results on human skin. Blurred reflection will give good results but the reflection will likely be too uniform to look of skin. Enter the specualrity cheat that for some reason due to the Specular Halo the shine can be shaped very specifically. I could not imagine rendering human characters without specularity for the skin. I have seen a few characters rendered in Carrara and to me the skin shine looks way way off. Far too uniform. Ramon for instance has a more or less believable amount of shine to him and I struggled with it so very much and found that only specularity would do the trick in this particular instance. I tested reflection but found it would only work for me if it was blurred at high AA settings which was a very long render indeed. Also the sharp reflections I wanted inside the eyes were blurred beyond recognition so that became a negative.

I was indeed very flawed as you noted in my employment of specularity for the eyes. It ruined the realism completely. True reflection is the only way to true realism.

I think that your point is extremely especially in the way of metallics and crystals as above and as in the eyes of Ramon where optics are involved. Surely specularity should be carefully considered before it is implemented when photoreal is the goal. If not used carefully if will certainly ruin a render.
04.29.2008 20:28 Offline rashadcarter1 rashadcarter1 at aol.com


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