Bryce5.com

Registered users

» Forgot password
» Registration

Random image

Early Evening
Comments: 2
Horo

25.04.2024, 09:25

Home Page

Google ADs below

What A View 2

What A View 2
Description:	I read over the comments from first try on this scene and decided to add more light with both HDRI and sunlight I also added a picture background from my back yard with clouds.
Added by:	Render Man
Keywords:	horse, water, clouds
Date:	03.21.2008 23:47
Hits:	3239
Downloads:	78
Rating:	0.00 (0 Vote(s))
File size:	157.1 KB

Previous image: Wild Sea

Next image: Passage

Author:

Comment:

rashadcarter1
Admin

Join Date: 06.04.2006
Comments: 2610

Again, you have made alot of really good choices. The water looks like a real photograph. The lighting seems natural overall. You are making headway in your mastery of ibl. The greeness of the grass in the foregound is a touch high in saturation. I too struggle with this so I often notice it with other people's artwork. Nice that you used a 2d grass texture and supplemented it with real 3d grass.

I think the hills you built should look more like the mountains in the background, more round and less busy terrains. The haze could be used to add a furhter sense of distance between the fore and the background image, but even still you have done a great job. I know that in scenes lit only with IBL the specualrity fuction does not work, but since you added a radial you should be able to get a little bit. I say this to suggest that the horse could use some bump mapping to indicate the fur. And Usually fur is slightly shiny so the specularity will aid you there. I do not yet fully buy that the background and foreground are from the same world but admittedly I would not know how to integrate the image into a bryce scene this effectively. DavidBrinnen wrote a tutorial for sale at Daz, I might purchase it to see what the man has got to say. Bryce is not very good with skies so alternatives are necessary.

03.22.2008 00:06

Render Man
Member

Join Date: 11.10.2007
Comments: 358

The good thing about reading your comments is that I understood all that you said because I am becoming more familiar with Bryce. I had to laugh to myself when I was looking at some of the older comments on one of the scenes on this site and the person thanked the one who made the comments and then stated that he did not understand a word he said.

You have made many good points I felt the same way you did about the terrains and was just getting tired working on them. I would sometimes get the terrains the way I wanted it but could not find a terrain mat that I liked.

I did struggle with the grass. I played with the ibl and the sun and when I turned down the light to the grass the other portions of the scene would be to dark. So now we are back to lighting again. Much to learn.

Good points about the horse.

Yes it is tricky to figure out how to blend the two worlds together. This was my first try. It may have been easier if I just used a picture with clouds. I am sure it has allot to do with color and distance.

I did look for icecreammans tutorial on clouds in the forum but could not find it. He stated in one of his posts that it was under Bryce5 ideas. If you or anyone can find it I would like to check it out.

Thanks again for you suggestions and comments.

03.22.2008 01:01

Horo
Admin

Join Date: 05.26.2004
Comments: 4721

All importent remarks have been made already. The photographic 2D sky with the background mountains is beautiful. The problem is the middleground which is not compatible with it. It is difficult to get fore- middle- and background to blend nicely together. Camera FoV is very crucial, too.

Rashad mentioned David's tutorial (http://www.daz3d.com/i.x/shop/itemdetails/-/?item=5734&_m=d ) and I can highly recommend it. I had peer-reviewed it when it was in the works. On the way from A to Z, David forks to other lanes and tells why he had abandoned it after several steps. This tutorial is not only about the techniques, it is about artistic considerations as well.

03.22.2008 08:02

richter
Member

Join Date: 04.15.2004
Comments: 1092

[sidenote] A tutorial for sale... interesting.

You've got your 4/5 points. Impressive first try. Glad to see you're utilizing the feedback. About the mountain blending, Rashad has got a point. You should "examine" the lower part of your photo and try to achieve similar geometry shapes for the terrains. This goes as well for the main color of the material used onto the terrain. There's a backdoor to solve the blending and that's the haze. The further the mounain peaks get, the less saturated they'll look due to the haze. So instead of playing only with material color, you can combine both these "techniques" for maximum effect.

03.22.2008 14:45

Render Man
Member

Join Date: 11.10.2007
Comments: 358

Very good point about the haze. And yes I want to use the different suggestions that I am given. I concentrate so hard on one aspect that I forget the other aspects. Some call this tunnel vision. Thanks again for all your suggestions.

Horo, I was getting the impression that you knew were all the free stuff was but now I now find out that I have to pay for this tutorial. Hmmmm I think I can come up with the money. Thanks By the way what is camera Fov?

03.22.2008 20:27

davidbrinnen
Admin

Join Date: 01.03.2004
Comments: 2224

FOV

Field of View. One of the camera attributes, although there is a little button which controls it also on the camera controls, a small pip of a button, top right of the roller ball I believe. Anyhow, the upshot being that it differing angles for the field of view provide clues to the viewer about how the scene is being seen. For example, an extremely wide FOV gives a kind of fish eye view distortion, good for close up work. Narrow, like something viewed through a zoom lens, foreground and background become heavily compressed. Human vision is about 120 degrees. But as Horo knows from his endless and indefatagable experimentation Bryce is a bit fruity about the way it measures FOV and actually works across the diagonal, which is unexpected - or something like that. I can't quite remember. Anyhow for an outdoor scene I would recommend something in the region of 90 to 120 degrees (as measured by bryce).

As for blending a photo in the background. Well you've done a fine job. My only additional recommendation would be to suggest either lighting the photo or using the ambient channel to brighten it up a bit since it looks a bit dull compaired with the foreground. Which to my eye, does look a bit overly green. But I often feel that way about grass.

03.22.2008 20:38

rashadcarter1
Admin

Join Date: 06.04.2006
Comments: 2610

I think David is very right about the background being in need of ambient glow. In fact it will need alot of ambient and not so much diffussion. The ambient channel is useful and I'm glad it's around at times like this when you need to boost the light of a 2d object with appropriate 2d light.

03.25.2008 03:44

Render Man
Member

Join Date: 11.10.2007
Comments: 358

When you speak of ambient glow are you talking about the ambient in the materials lab for the background picture?

I purchased David's tutorial and am about half way. It is a little different approach than what I am used to. This method makes you have to think more ha. I have already practiced with another picture using radial lights with soft shadows which still needs some more work.

Thanks David for explaining FOV as I am still finding my way around in Bryce.

03.26.2008 00:47

rashadcarter1
Admin

Join Date: 06.04.2006
Comments: 2610

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. The ambient channel fails to express model geometry and that is the main problem with ambient glow usually for normal solid room temperature objects. anytime you are looking to express model geometry do not apply ambient glow because it will flatten the geometry.

The opposite is true for a background like this. It's like a giant television screen. The background is drawn onto a 2d object, a mere disk. There is no geometry to flatten so ambient glow is fine. Real objects are lit differently than implied objects like this background. I know I badmouth the ambient channel like no one else in this world and I am justified in doing so, but I also acknowledge the true uses of ambient glow for times like these. You need ambient glow for certain things like nebuals and stars in outer space, windows of buildings at night time, images on T.v. screens, fire, magic, that kind of stuff. Anything that would radiate light in real life needs ambient glow in Bryce. The sky does radiate light onto the world beneath it as skylight so it probabky should glow a little when used as a background.

The issue with realism is cause and effect. The ambient channel is all "effect" with no "cause" and that is why it looks fake in 99% of situations, I stand by that. It radiates light even if the model is not receiving any from it's environment which at room temperature should not happen. But in this case you want the background to be bright enough to look correct and since it's a flat disk anyhow, ambient glow will not harm it in any noticable way.

03.26.2008 03:11

Render Man
Member

Join Date: 11.10.2007
Comments: 358

Thanks for the clarification. I just recently added ambient channel to my landscape along with reflection by mistake and after 10 hours or rendering I had a real nice picture of my trees and building reflecting in the ground texture. It was a good lesson for me.

I understand what you are saying about the ambient channel for the background picture. It sounds like ambient is good for background pictures but not for objects in a scene.

I do know that some will sometimes apply just a little transparency to objects to add some realism to an object like grass. Have you tried this method?

03.27.2008 18:40

rashadcarter1
Admin

Join Date: 06.04.2006
Comments: 2610

Are you kidding, it's what I'm known for? Oh yes indeed, I have tried transparency instead of ambient. I have seen many transparency rigs but not all are created equal. I developed some special leaf transparency mapping techniques. Grass is transparent in a very different way than a glass of water. Most people not realize that and they place glass like transparency onto leaves with not so believeable results. If you assign a leaf material with standard transparency the leaf will become highly reflective in the process. Leaves are not mirrors so standard transparency does not look as great as many would hope. There is however a simple workaround that I believe is a well kept secret but one that has surely gotten out. If you have the stomach to test it out you can find in the mat. exchange Leaf Template 1 and especially template 2 created by myself. The long story is that I have established a sub-surface scatter instead of standard glasslike transparency, so that the leaves have a natural interaction with light with no need for ambient or other forms of transparency. Test it out on a tree mesh or two. Place a bright light above the tree and render it with the camera below the plant facing upward. This way you can see for yourself the results of this special mode of transparency and the way the light and shadows are affected by the transparency. You can also see a quick demonstration on this link: http://www.bryce5.com/details.php?image_id=2026&mode=search

I would love to hear of or to see your results using this special transparency instead of ambient on vegetation.

03.28.2008 02:01

Render Man
Member

Join Date: 11.10.2007
Comments: 358

Just downloaded both leaf mats and read your comments with both materials. Let me look over these mats and then give me some time as my work had really picked up and I have been rendering one scene for a day or more and am hoping to have my computer back soon. There are so many things I want to try. I have been working on making a good rain mat using Photoshop but have not found anything I really like. Just not enough hours in the day.

03.28.2008 02:50

Previous image:
Wild Sea

Next image:
Passage

[Discord Server]