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philip

23.04.2024, 06:59

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Into The Vortex

Into The Vortex
Description:	This one's done with a sphere inside a torus with 3 additional mirrored spheres within. FOV is 180, as usual. Same 8 point 4 color light ring. All comments welcome.
Added by:	spektyr
Keywords:	Abstract, Asymmetrical, Asymmetry, Colorful, Mirrors, Reflections, 3D, Spektyr
Date:	08.28.2007 13:23
Hits:	4101
Downloads:	69
Rating:	5.00 (1 Vote(s))
File size:	595.4 KB

Previous image: Rainbow Chaos 3

Next image: Rainbow Chaos 2

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gat
Member

Join Date: 12.21.2006
Comments: 667

I think I like this one best out of the other two.

08.28.2007 14:35

Horo
Admin

Join Date: 05.26.2004
Comments: 4721

It's very difficult for me to have a preference. Each one is unique and has a charm of its own. Although there are infinite number of variations for symetrical ones, there is an equal infinite number of variations for the asymetrical ones.

Now your camera FoV may be set to 180?, the AoF (Angle of View) is only 144? if the Scale is at 100%. In fact, the Bryce camera cannot be set to an AoF of 180? but you can still increase it if you reduce scale to 10 or lower. I measured the FoV/AoV discrepancy once (because that little detail fooled me up consideraby, once) and I have the results on my website: Raytracing > Hints > Camera.

08.28.2007 15:02

gat
Member

Join Date: 12.21.2006
Comments: 667

Hmmm, I would like to argue the infinity of number of different possible creations with this, through the number of different creations is so big it could be counted as near infinite. This of course depends on if there are significant digits limit, which there should be in every computer program, otherwise it would take much longer to calculate even simple bounces of light. SO, there is a limit to the number of possible variations. :D

Its kind of funny, everything we make on a computer is already virtually made, so we are not making anything new we are only pulling it out.

08.28.2007 21:37

spektyr
Member

Join Date: 07.02.2005
Comments: 1010

So you're saying "Anything aleady exists, it's just waiting for us to reveal it?" Fascinating. (one eyebrow raised in a perfect Spockesque face) ;-)

Are you one of those people who believe that we make every possible choice and that each choice spawns a unique reality? Just imagine how many quantum realities are being created each second, not to mention how many already exist. And if this is true then what determines which branch our consciousness takes? Unless of course our consciousness also branches with each choice and we then loose awareness of the other branches.

Mindboggling isn't it? ;-)

08.29.2007 00:43

gat
Member

Join Date: 12.21.2006
Comments: 667

its true, everything in the universe can be predicted with complex math, the only reason it would not is if there was a god, or an entity outside of normal physical laws that is able to influence anything it wants to. But if everything comes from somewhere, where DID everything come from? big bang is a nice way to put it, but it does not answer the most basic question still. Matter is nor created or destroyed is what they told us before, but now scientists are saying that this theory might not be true.

08.29.2007 01:45

spektyr
Member

Join Date: 07.02.2005
Comments: 1010

Before I hit the sack here's a question to ponder about the existance of an influence on the universe that is beyond our understanding and is to me absolute proof of the existance of what I would call a divine creator.

If the universe was created from a massive hydrogen explosion, the Big Bang if you prefer, then how is it that galaxies, stellar systems, life itself and, most of all, self awareness resulted from an event as chaotic as an explosion?

I've yet to see science adiquately explain this.

08.29.2007 02:20

gat
Member

Join Date: 12.21.2006
Comments: 667

Life is nothing more then a mechanism, thats been proven, the way cells work and how everything is related in an organism. So, its just billions and billions of years of chemical and molecular bonding, all at random that finally gave result to the first single cell organisms, and from there its just evolution.

08.29.2007 04:14

Horo
Admin

Join Date: 05.26.2004
Comments: 4721

Ok gat, I grant you this. So let's settle with infinite minus x where x is an unknown value. May it be that life, the universe and everything could be predicted with complex math. Only, there are too many unknown variables that had to be taken into account. Hence, our modelling capabilities are utterly primitive. And there are so many possibilities for evolution to biforkate or multiforkate every pico second or so. Modelling such for a math program to come up with an answer of - say 42 - may easily get out of hand. It is widely believed that the universe began with a big bang (the really big one). So, the question is, started all this with GOD the Great Origin Dot, or was this firework the result of an earlier collapse?

08.29.2007 11:49

gat
Member

Join Date: 12.21.2006
Comments: 667

Well, thats what we all are trying to find out. You can take God of the list, because even through he does not have to come from somewhere, his intelligence does. The way I think that matter was created was the same way as the first cells were, from an unlikely source. I think the question should be; what is there, where there is absolutely nothing?

08.29.2007 13:33

spektyr
Member

Join Date: 07.02.2005
Comments: 1010

Gat-
That only adresses one thing I mentioned and I personally do not think that a system as complex and versitile as DNA just happened at random? The single cell alone, the very mechanism through which DNA operates, is so wonderous that I can't see it happening by accident either. To say these things are the result of billions of years of random chemical bonding is just a way of saying, "I don't really know how it happened." When you add the rest of what I mentioned into the equation the idea that it all occured at random is absolutely ludicrous.

Horo-
Considering gravity, once the outward momentum of the Big Bang is expended the reasonable expectation is for it all to collapse back toward the center. Now once all that matter is drawn back to that point the resulting compression at it's very center would quite possibly reach critical mass and start the reaction all over again. Dr. Hawking called this theoretical collapse The Big Crunch and if it results in a new Big Bang then we have no way of knowing when it all started because we can't tell how many times it's happened.

Unless that's what the 42 is! Perhaps the cycle has occured 42 times so far so the ultimate question of life, the universe and everything to which the answer is 42 would be "How many times has it happened?"

Quick! Tell the Mice! Break out the Pan-Gallactic Gargle Blasters! Our job here is finally done! ;-)

Oh and tell Deep Thought too. It might cheer him up to know he suceeded.

And I wouldn't bother with Marvin. Nothing can cheer him up.

08.29.2007 13:39

caperh
Member

Join Date: 05.24.2004
Comments: 262

Well now you got it !!, your signature in 3D realy cool I like your works, i image one of those big one in my living room, nice work

08.29.2007 19:18

spektyr
Member

Join Date: 07.02.2005
Comments: 1010

Thanks Caperh!

Some of them do look like they should be framed and up on a wall. These 8 1/2 by 11 prints don't do them justice at all, even if I can get the colors adjusted so they look like they do on the display.

The largest photo printers I can find can do 17"x22" prints however I wouldn't spend the money unless I know they can get the colors right. For now I'll have to find a printing service that can do poster sized prints in high quality. I'll see soon enough. My ultimate goal is to have a few of my works on display at the Met.

Ah. It's nice to dream. ;-)

08.29.2007 19:38

gat
Member

Join Date: 12.21.2006
Comments: 667

DNA might be complex to us, but we don't even use half our brain. If DNA can be broken down into parts, then it sure can be put together as well. Correct?

08.29.2007 19:46

spektyr
Member

Join Date: 07.02.2005
Comments: 1010

It is thought that we only use 10% of our brains. So what of the other 90%? I'm sure it's not just skull stuffing. Some of it may have the purpose of redunancy but it all has a purpose and function or it would not be there in the first place. I think a more accurate statement is that we only know what 10% of our brain actually does and the rest is a mystery to us.

Regarding DNA, yes, it can be put together. With enough understanding it can be used to custom design life forms. How long was it in existance before we even had the awareness to discover it? Hundreds of millions of years? Billions?

The bottom line is that DNA is a base4 organic programming language used to define all the parameters of a life form. Whatever originally designed it is so far above us we are like tinker toys by comparison.

Maybe we should take this discussion to the user forum and pull out all the stops. LOL

08.29.2007 22:22

gat
Member

Join Date: 12.21.2006
Comments: 667

lol yeah, lets just stop here. we won't get anything solid out of this anyway.

08.29.2007 23:12

spektyr
Member

Join Date: 07.02.2005
Comments: 1010

Solid? In Cyberspace? What a concept! ;-)

08.30.2007 01:22

caperh
Member

Join Date: 05.24.2004
Comments: 262

Spektyr you be careful with the profesional printers service because I was send my works to a profesional service and was a bad experience, they did a bad work with my designs the colors was poor, no brightnes like a poster like you see in the computer, so first ask for a test of colors, good luck

08.30.2007 03:14

rashadcarter1
Admin

Join Date: 06.04.2006
Comments: 2610

How did I miss this conversation? If I might chime in.

I will say that part of the divide between opinions on these subjects are generational, in that Horo and Spektry have many years on Gat. In a way you are from two different times and it makes sense that you might not see eye to eye on these issues. Myself, I am a bit closer to gat in age and coinicidentally in opinion.

First the Universe:
The big bang was a quantum event, not a classical physical event. The thing to remember about quantum events is that the outcome is never 100 certain as it is in classical events like a ball bouncing. When two electrons collide in an accelerator, there is no one outcome observed every single time. Sometimes they create a proton after they collide; other times they create a couple thousand new electrons; other times they create anti-matter. The point is that the solutions must be proposed as probabilities, not as absolutes. So in a quantum sense nothing is actually impossible, just some things are more probable to occur than others. Whether life would result from the big bang is simply a probability question. The more big bangs or universes there are, the more likely that one of them would have the required presets for life to evolve. It's like shooting baskets; the more chances you have the more likely you will finally hit a basket and we can all go home.

With this in mind let's move on to life itself.
Gat proposed that life evolved randomly over time. I tend to agree with him. Why, it's simple. On this planet alone at any given moment you can find water as a liquid, gas, or solid. You can find water that is salty and water that is fresh. You can have water at incredible temperatures at the bottom of the sea. All the while being churned by the moon and storms, warmed by the sun, struck by lightning, and salted from rainfall carrying salt to the oceans. Water is the key, especially liquid water. Truthfully, It's all just boring chemistry...that is until you add water...then it becomes biology. It's like a big kitchen with thousands of pots of soup all cooking at once. If you keep this experiement cooking for long enough a yummy dish (or life) is more likely to develop. A few thousand years is not enough time for the probabilities to rise high enough for life to exist. But if you consider just how long 6 billion years is, you can see that even at a random pace life could become probable on a wet planet baked in the sun.

DNA itself is nothing more than a complex sugar molecule; carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, phosporous, and nitrogen. The amazing thing is that nebula clouds of made of simple sugar have been found in space! Google sugar in space and be amazed. This means that the basic element of DNA which is sugar exists in places where life itself does not. The sugar is created by frozen gasses on tiny particles being baked by stars and being hit by random stellar radiation of high energy particles causing the gases to react chemically creating sugar. Carbon is not your everyday atom, it has four available electrons in it's outer shell making it very likely to bond chemically, making exeptionally large and complex molecules possible. As complex as it seems, a dna molecule is nothing but a bunch of small parts glued together. It makes sense because no matter what you are looking at, complexity is nothing more than simplicity made complex by numeration and repetition.

The real question is...what does the future hold?

08.30.2007 03:21

spektyr
Member

Join Date: 07.02.2005
Comments: 1010

First to Caperh-
I can fully appreciate the warning. Needless to say I wouldn't spend money on large prints without first getting a set of proofs to see how the colors come out. Thanks for being concerned.

Now to Rashad-
Ok. Lets say that DNA chains can form by random chance. Without a mechanism through which they can act they are just molecules, right? The Cell with all it's inner workings, Mytochondria, Ribosomes, etc, is the real mystery. How does this happen at random. DNA alone cannot construct a cell all by itself, can it? Can you really believe that a working single celled organism based around a randomly created molecule chain, or rather several of them (aka Chomosomes), can actually just create itself? Never mind more complex structured multicell organisms. I cannot fathom how a single cell happened purely by chance. If you want me to believe that then show me a scientist that can create conditions in a laboratory that result in a living cell assembling itself out of raw materials.

08.30.2007 04:14

rashadcarter1
Admin

Join Date: 06.04.2006
Comments: 2610

How can this complexity sprout? The issue is time... that it takes alot of time. The more time that passes the greater the probability of things having a chance to happen within it. Not just living things, but all kinds of occurances. Example; In a square inch there is only a certain amount of space, so only certain things (small things) can fit inside of it. In a square mile alot more things of greater scale can fit inside of it. Time is exactly the same way. The more time that passes the more things that have a chance to happen within it. Not much can happen in a split second but alot more can happen over a few years for example. Imagine a universe of infinite size, the possibilities are endless. My chances of winning the lotto are 1 in many million. But if I was to play millions of times then it's sure that I would eventually win at least once. Life is the same way.

On your questions about the inner workings of the cell I propose this to you. All parts of a cell and all protiens used in it's life are coded in it's dna. so yes, even the membrane is coded in the dna. Also, Mitochondria can live on their own. They do not need the cell, the cell needs them for their energy storage abilities. Another example: Viruses for example are nothing more than software searching for hardware (cells) to invade and take control over. Viruses do not have a life of their own, yet are a big part of life. Viruses prove that there are "middle" grounds between living and non living.

Life crests on the fact that water and oil do not mix. Proteins are the building blocks of life, and they are always acidic, and they are also usually oils. All oils are acidic to a small degree, so they are anxious to react chemically, and often at low temperatures, as life requires. Compared to the temperature of a star for example, Earthly termperatures are very low indeed. Water is also a weak acid. Water is special because it provides the perfect "mesh" background for these acidic reactions because it transfers heat so efficiently when it is in it's liquid form, and the Earth is so lucky to have it abundantly. Oil on the other hand is much less dense than water and does not transfer heat nearly as well, making oil a bit of a heat holder. This is the reason animals in cold climates or cold waters need so much fat to survive. Cells have a saline solution within them because the added salt helps the cell to regulate it's temperature so that it will not freeze at exactly 32degrees, also it makes electrical energy transfer even more efficient than just plain water, along with making all things that float in the water more bouyant and less affected by gravity. This makes sense since the oceans are salinated and life is thought to have begun in the oceans.

Most of the known life forms on this planet gain their "life energy" from the sun. The sun is the key. Plants convert the sun's energy into sugars that the plant uses to live, even animals eat the plants for those very sugars, it saves the animal alot of work. At the sea bottom some life forms use thermal vents for energy, but they still rely on the base debris of dead cells (organic molecules) that sink to the bottom for the raw material which they live on.

Many experiemtens have shown how life could have begun. They have done studies where they fill a glass chamber with carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, and phosphorus, and then they send an electrical current like a spark of lightining through the chamber. What they find after the flash of electricity is alot of burned carbon, some newly formed water molecules, and they find a host of organic molecules based around carbon atoms. Basically the early Earth in it's molten state so violent as the Earth cooled created huge storm clouds and there were some serious flashes of lightning occurring. Volcanoes erupting. These are things that we know can destroy a living thing, but they were key in providing the energies necessary for life to begin in the first place.

A living thing is technically nothing more than a rechargable battery. A complex circuit is all a cell really is. Energy enters, and due to the laws of entropy, energy will exit over time. Energy moves from one place to another. Life requires fuel. All chemical reactions release energy, but many of them need an initial energetic input in order to get the reaction started. Cells know this so they store energy in ther mitocondria for that purpose. Ameoba have been known to actually move toward light sources, or away from them depending on their energy needs.

Alas, I cannot provide you with a cement description of the first living thing, but what I will guess is that in some pool of salty water there reached a point in which a bunch of organic moelcules were present, then a slight electrical charge was introduced, causing a bunch of molecules to group together creating a spherical shape we would call a cell membrane. The membrane is itself nothing more than a new and complex sugar/oil molecule with space inside of it, but this molecule is not completely bonded on one end, allowing even more small bits and pieces to join on. Once this first cell membrane was created all sorts of things could happen within it because it was not conpletely isolated from it's surrounding, it still had an opening that allowed more things in and out. Add in some regular electrical shocks from storms, and it makes sense that at some point these cells would accidentally copy themselves, and begin life as a replicating force.

If one really wraps their head around the fact that this planet is at least 6 billion years old, yes life is probable indeed.

08.30.2007 07:56

Horo
Admin

Join Date: 05.26.2004
Comments: 4721

I'm refering to hardcopy (though I certainly enjoy the discusion that unfolds here). I send my works to a company named "Colormailer" which operates worldwide. With a small free tool, you can send in your pictures over the Internet and get back prints on photopaper. The most important thing to bear in mind is to uncheck the "adjust colors" option.

08.30.2007 09:03

spektyr
Member

Join Date: 07.02.2005
Comments: 1010

Horo-
Thanks for the info. I'll definitely keep it in mind.

Rashad-
"If one really wraps their head around the fact that this planet is at least 6 billion years old, yes life is probable indeed."
The Key word here is "probable".

Lets just agree on one thing here. What we both are proposing is purely theoretical at best. You believe that order can come from chaos as a result of randomness over time. I believe that order does not come from choas at all without some type of intelligent guidance. We are obviously firmly set in our oppinions and refuse to bend so we can go on like this until the cows come home. Neither one of our theories can be proven absolutely so at this point we should just agree to disagree and leave it at that. Fair enough?

08.30.2007 12:05

gat
Member

Join Date: 12.21.2006
Comments: 667

I agree with rashadcarter1 on everything he said so far, and said it good indeed! I learned a few things too :)

08.30.2007 12:11

davidbrinnen
Admin

Join Date: 01.03.2004
Comments: 2224

Oooh... I leave the computer alone a few days and you all start having interesting conversations! Well, asside from congratulating Spektyr on another superb sworly rainbow abstract... asside, well, as I see it the universe is in decay, it's being run into the ground (entropy says so) and any increasing complexity is purely tempory and localised and will be ground down to nothing with everything else eventually. I think conciousness is either a mistake or an accident, if the former I'm going to complain to the manufacturer, if the latter I'm just going to complain how unfair it is that we must be constantly subject to these random perterbations in what would otherwise be a very long and peacefull sleep. Of course there are those who think it will end well, possibly with a sweet trolly and a fine selection of Aldibaron Liqures - I'm not one of them. I think it will end as it began, unobserved and probably outside any kind of frame of reference we can at present understand or simulate.

08.31.2007 19:28

spektyr
Member

Join Date: 07.02.2005
Comments: 1010

"God is asleep and the Universe is It's bad dream."
-Spektyr-

"If our ancesters had known that Politicians would eventually come out of the gene pool they would have stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea."
-Captain John J. Sheridon-
Military Governor of Babylon 5

This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper
From 'The Hollow Men'
-T. S. Eliot-

09.01.2007 21:16

tina gazcon
Member

Join Date: 08.07.2006
Comments: 254

Awesome

25 comments? This one deserves it though. Your choice of colors is masterful. I think your work is tops. Wow! What more can I say? I would give you a 10 if I could. It is beautiful Spektyr!

09.07.2007 12:54

spektyr
Member

Join Date: 07.02.2005
Comments: 1010

OH BOY! That really did it! I just had to widen all the doors in the house so I can get my head through them. LOL

Thank you Tina! Looks like you're nominated for the presidency of my fan club. ;-)

Seriously, I'm so happy my work moves you this way. It transforms my art into a special gift of beauty to you, as it would for anyone who feels moved by it. I think this is the real joy for me as an artist, knowing that my efforts have touched others. :-)

09.08.2007 03:17

tina gazcon
Member

Join Date: 08.07.2006
Comments: 254

You are so right on about how your work affects me. I love beautiful colors no matter how they are used on canvas. I have been a part of the art world since I was a child. My mother was an artist and musician. She passed down those gifts to me. Did you see my last piece Art-Expo 07? Those are some of my oil paintings. I deleted my first art-expo which explained some things about me. My first love is playing piano. Music really moves me. Working with Bryce is a lot harder than putting paint on a canvas. I enjoy the challenge though, and having friends like you keep me interested in learning more ways of using the program. Thankyou for being so nice to me : )

09.08.2007 12:12

spektyr
Member

Join Date: 07.02.2005
Comments: 1010

WOW! You are indeed enormously tallented with paint and canvas. Those paintings are BEAUTIFUL!

I have great admiration and respect for people who can paint. I've never been very good at it. What I've always been good at is computers, since they hit the scene that is. Believe it or not the first time I got my hands on a computer was in 1974. It was very primitive and had no graphical capability at all but I took to it like it was second nature. It makes perfect sense that my artistic tallents found a perfect medium in computers. I know it's a challenge working on digital canvas at first. It was for me too. My earliest works were not very good but I stuck with it and look at me now. Have you seen my Temple of Golden Light images? That was my first serious challenge with boolean modeling in Bryce. There was a lot of multireplicating involved and many elements are resized duplicates but everything was modeled from scratch. I was obscessed with the task and completed it all in about a week. Sadly, I lost the original setup files due to a hard drive crash and all I have left are the images I posted here.

I'm sure you know that what really drives an artist to develope and improve the tallent is a passion for creation. If you allow yourself to become passionate about this digital medium you will continually surprize and delight yourself with the beauty you create. I can see by what you've done so far that you have an eye for this. That Art-Expo image is VERY NICE! The clouds look completely natural to me and that tree....GORGEOUS!

You are very welcome. I felt it when I first joined Bryce5.com that this was an artist's community. The help and support I've gotten here has been invaluable. I think it's only right that I follow the example of our colleagues here. To me it's 'Sharing the Passion'. :-)

09.08.2007 17:05

spektyr
Member

Join Date: 07.02.2005
Comments: 1010

See October Daz Bryce Gallery!

Good news everyone! This image and 'Rainbow Chaos 1' have been posted in the October Daz Bryce Gallery!!! Look! I'm doing cartwheels and hand stands......WHOOPS!.. CRASH.. KABOOM.. SHATTER. TUMBLE.. rattle... tinkle....... OUCH!!!!!

Oh dear. Looks like another month in traction for me. LOL

I want to thank each and every one of you for your support and suggestions without which I would probably have never made it this far. You are all great people! I consider you colleagues and friends. :-)

10.08.2007 14:30

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